From: "David Harnish"
To: bacn
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 10:19 AM
Subject: [bacn] Walter Spies

Eng-Beng Lim stated: "I am interested to know if Spies may have exploited the Balinese for
his own purposes during the 15 years he spent there."

"Exploit" is a strong word (undefined in your message), but I would say Yes, he exploited "the Balinese" just as you are exploiting his name for your own purposes. Spies was a gay or bi Russian-born artistic man of German descent who was marginalized most everywhere he lived. He found a home in Bali where he felt comfortable artistically and sexually. Certainly he took advantage of the seemingly tolerant environment (and maybe many young boys) and excelled in becoming the head of Bali's expatriates (i.e. the Bali Circle), giving him perhaps more star power than he would have had elsewhere. Rather than "exploit," a better word is perhaps "appropriate." He appropriated the culture and learned from it, and also gave back in his own way. I'm sure that most would say that he gave back more than he appropriated. I WOULD You've always had some underlying agenda in your questions about Spies; many of these have concerned sex (his sexual preference/appetite has been documented elsewhere).

 You seem to want to find information to tear him down. To some extent that's fine: too many people have viewed him as the golden, enlightened European reviving (even rescuing) and furthering Balinese culture (e.g. kecak, new artists painting, tourism, etc.). But the vast majority of Balinese and foreign scholars tend to view his time (and contributions) in Bali positively and the angle of your questioning is suspect.

David Harnish, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ethnomusicology
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From: "David Harnish"
To: BACN
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [bacn] Walter Spies


Dear Eng-Beng:
It is not at all threatening to ask about less savory aspects of colonialism. Do you consider Spies a colonizer? He certainly did take advantage of his position (non-Dutch European) during colonization, but so did others of the Bali Circle. Are they all implicated in colonization (a question for a different time)? I believe that there is significant data available explaining Spies and his sexuality, and not in flattering terms.WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I HEARD HE WAS A GREAT ROOT. "TEENAGE, AQUATIC SEX AND SQUALOR" WAS DORIS DUKE'S WORKING TITLE FOR HER CAMPUAN HOME MOVIES.

In response to Adrian's queries, did Spies rape boys? I'm not aware of any unwillingness, though many of the boys were no doubt in a powerless position. Did he otherwise mistreat these partners (i.e. never pay them, Why should he pay them you idiot!! (well not like an a.t.m.) confine them WHAT!!, in other ways physically abuse them, etc.)? Did he or other expats at the time perform less humanely than empowered triwangsa? Or other foreigners in the tourist industry? Adrian, you would know these answers better than most others. You mention McPhee and imply that he had to leave or else he would have been arrested. I've never heard that. Do you have sources to support that claim? Could some in the Dutch colonial offices have wanted to harass these expats? It might be interesting to map what we know about this situation with other contemporaneous occupied "exotic" locales like Hawaii and Tahiti, but otherwise this line of discussion on Spies is rather narrow and dull.

I question Eng-Beng's motives simply because he has only asked questions on this list dealing with Spies' sexuality and possible exploitation (still not completely defined). I have never read a question from him about Spies that was not loaded. RIGHT ON BROTHER Every scholar must cast a wide net and attempt to unburden their biases. AMENI don't see that happening here. I see only a single line of thinking and reasoning. HE NEEDS A GOOD ROOT Eng-Beng, why don't you ask about other aspects of Spies's life? Do you really believe these other parts of his life are fully documented? I don't. He was a complicated man, and I don't think we can simply say that he was "good" or "bad." Most certainly he made an impact. The fact that were debating him is testament to that. We must consider the time and his time and the conditions that helped create him and Bali of that time. "Judging" rarely implicates good scholarship. He did have sexual relations with boys; that is known and cannot be denied. How many, how often, how "exploitive" is not known. Even the age of those boys probably cannot be accurately measured. Are these issues truly relevant? I would say no, unless you wanted to map them onto larger notions of 1920s-30s Bali (colonization, sputtering feudalism, tourism, Dutch agendas, etc.) and then locate Spies and his activities.

Your criticism of Spies is welcomed. He has been canonized as one of the great European/Western saviors of Asian civilizations and that is a problem. You are correct that the dominate narrative describes him as selfless and wonderful, though that is not the only narrative.
You might try to engage this list openly on the subject, accepting reports (from insiders as well as outsiders) that are both more negative and positive, rather than simply playing up sordid angles. It is also crucial that you go to Bali yourself to ask these questions that you feel you must, and to seek out people who might have actually met Spies, or at least to those whose families might have been connected or artists/intellectuals who have an informed opinion (I doubt most others know of Spies). Some local perspectives on Spies might be quite illuminating and are indeed necessary in any scholarship. This listserve cannot adequately serve in that capacity.

Best,
David Harnish, Ph.D.
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Dear David,
 am not sure why it is so threatening to ask the less savory aspects of colonialism, and I tend to think the degree on the scale of colonial appropriation-exploitation is one in which the Balinese themselves are more equipped to answer. I used "exploitation" to lay bear what I am interested to find out since Spies's good deeds are well-known and I cannot think of one bad thing he had done. Can you? And it is ok to ask why that is the case? So of course I have an agenda, I cannot imagine anyone doing academic work doesn't, and part of it is to understand why his good name is so guarded in the discourse. Perhaps it is because he is indeed a wonderful man and I am very happy to report that if my research turns out that way, but it has to begin with some questions. If anything is suspect, it is as you pointed out yourself the dominance of such narratives featuring Spies as a "golden, enlightened European". Also, Spies's homosexuality is a contested issue. GIVE US A BREAK Bruce Carpenter has informed us that his biography was written with the stipulation that his sexual practices be excised. It was the 1930s: people were discreetI don't know how we can learn more about the man if we rely on existing exaltations and subscribe to orientalist generalities that see, for instance, Bali as having a "seemingly tolerant environment". With no physical access to Bali at this time, I wish more Balinese would make their views known on this listserve. They wouldn't waste their time. That find it indelicate to rake over a dead hero's presumed picadilloes.

Eng-Beng Lim

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From: "Eng-Beng Lim"
Reply-To: bacn
To: bacn
Subject: Re: [bacn] Walter Spies
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:01:05 -0800

Dear David,
Thanks for your pointers. I am particularly interested in your observation pertaining to the Balinese "boys" in Spies's life: I'm not aware of any unwillingness, though many of the boys were no doubt in a powerless position.
Can you tell us how you know that? It would be helpful to get your citation on this as well as various other claims you made about Spies. I am having trouble finding "data" on Spies's relations with the "boys" particularly from a Balinese perspective and I am eager to know what your data is.
It would be very helpful to this discussion if you can share your bibliography. I am not a generalist writing Spies' biography, these broad narratives are widely available. I am looking at issues of sexuality as is clear from my line of questioning, and I am consulting BACN to supplement parts of my research. Man/boy relationships continue to this day in Bali and I
think it is worth answering the sort of questions you are asking. I am only trying to point out that Balinese perspectives are lacking while Spies relatively speaking is already a very complex person in the discourse already. The good/bad binary as you rightly pointed out is a wrong approach to critical studies, and it isn't mine. I was merely making a rhetorical point to show the imbalance in the discourse.
Looking forward to your citations. And thanks to Bruce for the illuminating clarification. Cheers, Eng-Beng

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To: ptwijaya
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: Fw: DEAD HOMOS HABITS: COMMENTS FROM MADE WIJAYA

 Dear Baliophiles,
I would like to enter the fray as per invitation. My comments:

----- Original Message -----
From: LIM,ENG-BENG
To: bacn
Cc: eb
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [bacn] Walter Spies

 Mary Ida Bagus (Is this name a clever stab at "U" appelation?? for a white JERO feminist??), Thank you for asking about my research and also your very helpful insights about the culture of Balinese erotic practices. I am engaged in a theoretical rumination on the trope of white man/brown boys and am exploring the ways that Spies and Balinese males both embody and disembody this colonial, performative and homoerotic coupling. Jesus, Eng-Beng, they were just having fun! It sounds like you need a good colonial coupling!!
My performance object is kecak I recommend ping-pong balls (38 dancers can be hard to accomodate)which I use as a cultural and tropic site for such an analysis.
As you and Bruce Carpenter have suggested WHAT WOULD HE KNOW?? he's never lived in a village. Doesn't speak Balinese, erotic practices in Bali are complexly mapped onto the landscapes of its times, invoking such cultural considerations as Balinese sexual proprieties, kinship, and dissident forms of "heterosexual" practices to which Bruce brought also attention in his last email. I am not sure that Spies's sexuality should be exclusively defined by his pederasty charges YOU iDIOT: IT WAS GOV. GEN DE JONG (WHO COULDN'T GET IT UP) WHO ISSUED THE ARREST WARRANT!!!or if he is necessarily colonial in his erotic practices. The complexity of his relations with Balinese men and teenage boys require greater analysis WHY, as are the implications of his homoerotic practices and desire in his art and visions of Bali, arguably materialized in amongst other places, "Island of Demons" and kecak. WHAT These are contentions, and I will engaged in a conversation with anyone with a different point of view. ENGAGE MEI am trying to historicize the encounter and "read" it through Spies's imaging of Bali to the Western world. I find Bruce's notion of "inter-Indonesian and inter-Balinese" sexual norms apotentially very productive way of conceiving a Balinese history of sexuality. YEH. AND I'M DOING SEXUAL HISTORY OF T-SHIRT SALESMENAlong the same lines I think, Tom Boellstorf at UCI has written about sexuality around "archipelagic" structures of affiliation in Indonesia. I am not interested in the "lurid details" of the encounter per se (are you sure E.B.?) as much as I am in some accounts that go beyond the assumption that he likes boys. And if these "lurid details" say something about the kind of affiliation or relation Spies/Balinese males shared, perhaps there is something to be made there. There is a danger of conflating contemporary sexual tourism involving boys in Bali today with Spies's experience, but there is a certainly a trope emerging here that requires a little more critical attention. SIT ON THAT TROPE. HUNTING WHITE NELLY MEN IS A TEENAGE VOCATION IN CERTAIN BALINESE QUARTERS. (What I could tell you if you'd relax that sphinkta).
My solution now is to turn to the Library of Congress (thanks to Adrian Vickers) ANOTHER ONE!! Is there a "lemari" club out there? like "COURTS!" and hopefully HIR Hinzler's NOW SHE'S AU COURRANT insights and help for more details on what happened, or what was perceived to have happened from the Western point of views of Mead, Bateson, and Spies himself. Do the court papers contain Balinese perspectives? Graeme MacRae said "one or two men" in Bali who worked with Spies may have some stories. Are there Balinese folk tales, narratives and court documents that have more leads? JOHN DARLING KNOWS ALL
Thanks, Eng-Beng Lim

P.S. Not since Hans Rodius limp biography of Spies has his artwork legacy been attacked by such a "lemari berat" (heavy closet).

Quoting mary ida bagus :

Dear Eng-Beng Lim, Is your project specifically about Walter Spies or is this a 'post-colonial' critique of sexual exploitation in SEAsia, the human condition or what? In the case of Bali in particular, the sexual activities of young males may not be as culturally significant as those of females.
By all accounts from older generations in Bali teenage males had freedom of movement over the countryside whereas post-pubescent females were closely guarded by brothers/cousins etc until married off usually in their mid-teens. The onset of female puberty is ritually marked straight after the first menstruation whereas boys merely 'join' other people's lifecycle rituals like toothfiling and marriages to mark theirs. Once safely married these 'women' could again go about their business with impunity. Megan Jennaway's recent book discusses contemporary Balinese female and male sexuality in terms of tourism. Effeminate behaviour and transvestisism are publicly ridiculed in the same way that overweight children, harelips and 'disability' are subject to derogatory humour. Balinese humour is certainly not 'pc'. Mutual male masturbation sessions may be commonplace on crowded beds/bales IS NOTHING SECRETbut this is apparently not regarded as homosexual activity. it was by me in those long, dark......I have never heard a 'heterosexual' Balinese male admit to penetrative sex with another male Jesus, Mary, keep it romanticbut some discussed activities could be interpreted as homosexual. Ultimately in Bali appearances are important and what happens in the public domain is what counts.  This all seems to point to the usual hypocrisy of 'homophobia' in patriarchal (and patrilineal) societies. If you are wondering whether Balinese people in prewar Bali felt exploited by Spies or any other expatriate resident I doubt that you will ever find a satisfactory answer. But let me reiterate that young males would have enjoyed freedom of movement and choice of activities. If you are wondering whether any contemporary 21stcentury Balinese feel exploited by Spies' activities I suggest that you write to the Bali Post and there would be a lively response. What a ridiculous suggestion. Anyway, Spies is a hero for the culture-concious....the Bali Post is not  Hope some of this has been helpful and I would be very interested to hear more about your research, regards Mary Ida Bagus (ps.not Balinese by the way!)